Until The Earth Shakes
By Shai Gefen

An interview with Mr. Yisroel Harel, one of the leaders in Yesha, who served as the director of the Yesha Council * "We must bring this country to a halt. Mothers are being killed, r’l – how can we remain silent?!"
 

Snapshot Bio: Yisroel Harel
Yisroel Harel is a resident of Ofra. He fought in the Six-Day War in Yerushalayim as a reserve officer with the parachutists, as well as in the Yom Kippur War. In 1980 he founded the Yesha Council and was the general secretary of the council for seven years. From 1987 until 1995 he served as director of the council.

Known for his articulateness and candor, Mr. Harel was the editor of the council’s paper, Nekuda. In his time, the Yesha Council waged a great battle against the Oslo Accords, bringing hundreds of thousands out into the streets.

Now he writes a weekly column for HaAretz as well as books and is involved in a number of projects connected with Eretz Yisroel.

I think that the State of Israel has decided to lose this war, so it is allowing it to become a war of attrition, and when it comes to a war of attrition we are lost. Israel can win a short full-scale war, which brings things to a definitive resolution. We lost all the wars of attrition waged against us. After the Six-Day War there was a war that led to the Yom Kippur War. The same thing happened in Lebanon, with the first Intifada, which led to Oslo, and the same thing is happening now, with the Al Aksa Intifada.

What we’re doing today is putting ourselves in a defensive position. They wear away at public opinion because they know that the Israeli public is weak and can easily be worn down.

You mentioned Kfar Dorom, but Gilo, in Israel’s capitol, really symbolizes Israeli attrition. They’ve been shooting at it for two months now and instead of resolving the issue at its source, they erect fortifications and protect the houses with walls and armored glass, which costs millions. Whoever sees this realizes that Israel is not interested in winning this war.

It’s not veiled criticism. I say it explicitly and I wrote a number of articles about it. The I.D.F. doesn’t want to win. If the I.D.F. wanted to win, the government would allow it.

The I.D.F. leaders are analyzing the situation in political terms rather than militarily. They aren’t thinking like soldiers, but like diplomats, and that’s a serious problem.

I think it began with the Yom Kippur War. The army had already lost its self-confidence back then. Since that time, it has constantly retreated and gone on the defensive. It withdrew from Sinai and the Rafiah altercation, and fled from Lebanon in shame.

Definitely. The Israeli army in Lebanon was mostly defending itself, and in Yesha too, the army is defending itself. Security rules in the army today forbid travel in vehicles that are not armored. Instead of the army attacking and taking the initiative, it’s protecting itself. Shooting requires explicit permission from higher-ups – precisely what took place in Lebanon in recent years.

Arafat and his ruffians are using the same tactics used in Lebanon. They sent men to learn the methods used by the Hizballah in Lebanon. That’s why today there are a lot of roadside bombs and similar tactics. The bus in Kfar Darom was blown up by a roadside bomb, Lebanon style.

We are playing into his hands with this defensive approach. Instead of attacking, we complain and try to look good. From a psychological standpoint we are creating an army that doesn’t know what it means to take the initiative.

I say the truth; I’m not involved in commentary. I paint the picture exactly as it is.

We have to attack those places they are shooting from and not leave any houses there. The I.D.F. knows where the leaders of the terrorists are, but embarrassingly, the I.D.F. allows them to fly over areas we have control over, when in any normal part of the world they would be attacked. The same is true for negotiations – we are negotiating with those who attack us, while they attack us. We are willing to forego the Temple Mount and make greater concessions than those at Camp David. This means that Arafat won the war.

According to Oslo he could have gotten a Palestinian state without war, but we were "smart" and we began explaining why Arafat was attacking Jews – he wants to achieve a state through war, otherwise he wouldn’t have the pride of a conqueror. We justify him attacking our civilians and soldiers. We are satisfied finding excuses for Arafat. Instead of attacking him, we justify his actions.

There were more serious situations (the Yom Kippur War and the War of Independence), but from a psychological standpoint we are in worse shape because this is the first time that Israel is fighting a war it doesn’t want to win. This is extremely serious, dangerous, and frightening.

If the army wanted to, it could easily take control of the area and the main arteries without even one shot. The problem is, it doesn’t want to. I hope the settlers have enough strength to hang on.

I don’t know whether there’s any point or how long it can go on. I don’t think it’s our job; it’s the job of the army. If we do it, the army will then say that somebody else is doing the work and it is excused. So I think our demands of the army must be strong and insistent.

The statistics are based on movement over the past year, not the past two months. I believe that in the strongly ideological settlements, not only won’t they leave – more people will join them. In the settlements where people live because of pleasant conditions and quality of life rather than ideology, as soon as the situation turns bad, they’ll want to leave. If the present situation continues, they will leave. This is why the government has to do something to stabilize the situation, and if it doesn’t, it’s a sign that it wants the settlers to leave.

People say that, but I have seen no proof. In any case, the results are the same. It makes no difference whether Israel winks from the side or not.

I don’t believe it’s a plan that was agreed to beforehand. The proof is that in Lebanon they responded the same way, not just here. As I said, the army is a defensive one. The Arabs are writing the rules of the game; they take the initiative and we run after their tails. Instead of doing to them what they’re doing to us in order to get them to start running, they write the script and we arrive after they shoot at us.

You are mistaken. He is talking about an 80% withdrawal from the territories and 20% of the settlers. He wants to get rid of the little yishuvim that are not in the block of settlements.

I can’t say because I don’t have enough information. It looks like an acceleration of the political process, yet elections are coming up and he knows that if he goes too far, he won’t be elected. It’s hard to say what might happen.

Unfortunately, it won’t. If the Likud gets in, I don’t expect much better. The Likud would be under the pressure of the whole world and under pressure from the Israeli media, while the Left will squeeze from the opposition side.

It’s really a paradox. Part of the solution is to weaken the ruling government and establish an opposition to oppose any government that wants to make concessions. It’s better than a prime minister who wants to show how liberal he is and how willing he is to make political agreements.

He may be stronger and more experienced, but the fact is that he supported Begin in the first Camp David agreement, which conceded Sinai. Without his support, Begin wouldn’t have done it. The same with the Wye Accords. Sharon drew the maps dismantling yishuvim, and he is the man who gave the nod to the unfortunate Wye Accords for Netanyahu.

The political/public-relations activities being done now are not enough under the circumstances. In the face of the brutal killings of mothers of large families, the country should have turned over and cried out. All that happens is they cry out a bit and go home. The country should have been closed down until Barak felt the earth shake. There were a few demonstrations, but nothing of consequence, and they did not convey a strong message. We have to turn the country over and not leave a stone unturned under such terrible circumstances!

Perhaps this is the silencing of the Right, which began with Rabin’s murder?

This goes way beyond that. They kill us almost daily and we do nothing. We’re silent. What has happened to us? How can we remain apathetic to Jewish blood being spilled? I really find it hard to understand the silence in the face of the awful situation we are in.

I’m not pessimistic. I am realistic. We have to fight back. When they shoot at us, we have to enter the places they are shooting from and take over and destroy them. If we have to, let us take prisoners, let’s stop them from flying. Let’s get them away from our roads and our settlements. They have to know that if they start with us, they will lose. It’s utterly irrational to allow them to shoot at us and kill our citizens, while we act as we do during peacetime.

People should take to the streets, not only as a one-time action and then go home, but to shake up the entire country. They should close roads and junctions and disrupt daily life. I’m not talking about strikes because of pay cuts, but because of daily acts of murder! Mothers are being killed! Mrs. Rina Didovsky, a mother of six, was killed on her way to teach. How can we be silent? Children go to school and are maimed. Why are we quiet?

I don’t think the problem is the leadership. We must guard the inner fire which creates the atmosphere. When Gush Emunim got started, we didn’t have publicity or money for publicity, and nevertheless, tens of thousands of people showed up to our events. The government realized it couldn’t do anything against us.

I don’t know exactly what happened, but the fact is that Jews are being killed and young mothers are not returning home, while we are sitting around.

Did you have a connection with Chabad regarding the fight for shleimus ha’Aretz?

We had a connection with Chabad after the Oslo Accords, when we organized the largest demonstration ever outside the prime minister’s office. Without Chabad, we wouldn’t have succeeded in organizing that demonstration. I greatly esteem Chabad for the work they did then based on the Rebbe’s orders.

Chabad can certainly bring about a great change in public opinion and I am surprised by their silence. Why have they stopped taking an interest in Eretz Yisroel? I call upon the Chabad establishment to wake up and not stand aside while Jewish blood is being spilled. Chabad can also use its influence worldwide to change world opinion.

After the Six-Day War I wrote to the Rebbe and asked that he send his Chassidim to Chevron to resettle it. He wrote that the time would come for that too. There’s no question that Chabad can strengthen the people in Chevron, who protect the Chabad holdings in the city.

It’s hard for all of us, but this is our test. I think we will pass it and I hope that the government will sober up. I think that in the past weeks we have undergone very difficult tests. There is no yishuv without casualties, but the settlers are strong and believe in what they do.